Skip to content

Question For The Medics, Cops and ER Nurses

118 comments

For an article I'm working on:

For the medics:

1. Medics, if you encounter a patient legally carried a concealed firearm, how do you deal with it? Secure and clear the weapon yourself? Have law enforcement do it?

2. For those instances when law enforcement officers are not present, what then?

3. Does your agency have a policy or procedure on how to deal with such things? If so, what is it?

For the cops:

1. You're working an accident scene, or for that matter, a shooting, and medics approach you to secure a firearm found on one of the patients. Presuming the patient is carrying legally, what do you do with the weapon?

2. If the patient is in command of his mental faculties, but for obvious reasons cannot go into the hospital carrying his weapon, what then?

For the ED nurses and physicians:

1. Medics bring in a patient who was legally carrying a concealed firearm. Let's say the medics (or a cop who arrived at the hospital with them or at a later time) have secured the weapon, and left it with the patient's personal effects. How do you deal with the firearm? Who would be responsible for its safe storage in your hospital?

2. What are your procedures for returning the firearm to its owner upon their discharge from the Emergency Department?

I eagerly await your comments…

Post to Twitter Tweet This Post

Posted by on December 11, 2011 • Filed under: 2nd Amendment
← Older Comments
  • Christopher Rozman

    Ohio.  The “no firearms” placards that can be posted at businesses etc. apply to squads.

  • Arnismtb

    we dont have protocol for that situation but if ever it happen to me,if the patient is not in life threatning condition ill pass by the nearest police outpost.

  • S Vanbloem

    I work security for a hospital. If any sort of weapon is found we secure it in a safe location and assign the patient a weapons receipt number. The patient may pick up their weapon upon discharge.

  • big o

    asked my chief what we would do in this situation since we have nothing in writing he said if the pd is on scene give it to them to secure if not then give it to you or another firefighter (the resident gun nuts) if you are around and ask for a leo unless its in a private residence then we would just leave it be in a secured location at the residence and let the patient know where it was. We are a non-transport bls fire department so the issue of firearms in an ambulance don’t pertain to us, will find out from our ambulance service what their policy is though

  • JonEMTP

    Here in PA, we actually have a protocol for this (#919, crime scene preservation).

    A breakdown:
    Don’t move it unless you need to.

    If you need to move it, handle it carefully and keep your booger-hook off the bang switch.

    Don’t unload it – or molest it in any way not absolutely needed.

    Put it in a closed (locked) compartment away from patient.

    Turn it over to LEO ASAP.

    ——-

    From working hosptial security: where I worked was suburban enough that we DID encounter our share of legally owned and carried firearms. (as opposed to illegally carried ones).

    Enough of us were armed-guard trained, and many of us were firearms enthusiasts on our own time (unarmed dept, though). We also had an annual “firearms familaization” training – excuse for all to show off their cool and unique guns. :)

    Our policy was to take it, unload it, and secure it as any other valuables in our locked safe. We’d return it to the patient on discharge, as long as they had a valid PA LCTF or other valid CCW permit. If not, policy was that we would get PD involved.

    In the event we had any questions about the gun, we could call our boss and/or call PD at our discretion.

  • Jack Bode

    Interesting questions, Kelly. Our state is a one that allows those who are registered with the state to carry. They must also carry a certificate. on their person, issued by the state. This certificate must be presented to police upon request. We are a “must issue” state, with some exceptions.

    1. Here, medics are not arbiters of whether or not the patient is carrying legally, that is a law enforcement decision. However, hospitals have exercised their right to deny those with “dangerous weapons” to carry guns in the facility. Consequently, what I have done is taken possesion of the firearm and handed it over to hospital security upon arrival. I do not “clear” the weapon or remove it from the holster.

    2. Our department does not have a written policy regarding this.

  • Jack Bode

    After reading thru many of the other comments, I had another thought.

    If the patient refused to allow me to disarm him, I would have to consider that a threat.

  • montieth

    “Before I add my two bits worth I have to recognise that in Australia we have vastly different views on concealed handguns”
    You may have missed the above qualifier….but please do note: 
    “legally carried a concealed firearm” in the above scenario…

  • http://firefighterparamedicstories.blogspot.com/ FireMedic

    What a fun topic. I haven’t come across this scenario yet (they’ve always been illegally carrying). I’d have to agree with Brian Lally.

  • Matt G

    Well said.

  • Matt G

    Luke, so far, you’ve said that 1911s are flawed designs with regard to safety. You’ve said Glocks go off by touching the side of the trigger. You’ve said that everyone needs training. You’ve stated that only one state doesn’t issue permits (note: some that do on paper have virtually none actually on the ground). You’ve stated that you have the skills to set up a program, but state that you’re not certified to teach. You’ve said that you were a security supervisor, though your license status isn’t on file. (Well, your securty license isn’t. Your EMT license expired back in 1995, down in San Antonio.)  You’ve told people didactically that they need to educate themselves, and then gone on to say that they need to educate their hospitals.

    Education is good. Everyone here gets that. We all agree.

    And you, good sir, have weighed in, and then some.

  • Bobbyjones

    I once worked in a ER as a tech. Had to move a patient and belongings to some other place.

    While moving clothes for this patient, his pants unrolled and a snubbie in a holster rolled out of the clothing roll and hit the floor.

    GahDamn.

    I told the patient (leg amputee, older gentleman) “Let people know next time so that they’re not surprised.”

    End of conversation. 

    Intercommunity Hospital, Covina, California

  • Farmer

    It’s easy, holding a courier status myself they should have paperwork that lists a phone number.  If they are coherent they can maintain either positive control, or direct visual of it until the person on the other line can get to a location to do a handoff.

    If they’re not coherent?  Well make sure the container stays secured, call the phone number on the paperwork and hope for the best.

    Any first responder, fire fighter, medic, emt, cop, who works in a town with a contractor might come into contact with classified material.  As is the case with most things preservation of life comes before containment of material.  Those folks who were exposed to the material will be placed under NDA with Uncle Sam and there will be briefings and paperwork to sign.

  • Ayates

    In the ED in rural GA we secure the firearm with personal belongings and then check it all in with out security officer who keeps up with it (and determines legallity with the PD) until the Pt is discharged.

  • Guest

    Okay, an opinion here from Germany. While I am not EMS, we work with them quite a bit, and their policy is as following:

    1) If the patient is carrying AND you the medic are comfortable in dealing with firearms AND actually know what you are doing: Ask for permission, disarm, unload, put in random pocket. Hand over to police when convenient, the patient’s life comes first.
    If the patient is confused in any way there is no obligation to disarm or even approach if he is handling the weapon.

    2) Same as 1). Just drop it off with the officer on duty at the hospital, preferably in a bag with the name of the owner.

    That’s the official policy.

    NOTE: The EMS I know best is attached to a fire company, so they benefit from what is called “general empowerment”. Distilled into common people’s words, it’s a bit of law that basically states that the fire service is allowed to do anything and everything that helps in dealing with the call/problem at hand, as long as it is not grossly over-the-top.
    I will ask around what the non-fire EMS do.

  • Abc

    “The gun will not go off by itself if it is in a holster”

    I know it’s kind of a nitpick, but a gun(modern, most likely to be found on a CCW) will not go off unless the trigger is pulled.  Holster makes no difference.

    We need to make sure we dot our i’s and cross out t’s on everything when educating the public about guns.

  • Airmansutto

    I agree, I carry a Glock 35. I know to never stick my finger near the trigger unless I want it to go off, Period. Feel free to point out how “Unsafe” the Glock is in comparison, that’s why I bought it.

  • http://twitter.com/CavTrooper66 H T

    kinda of late here but my agency has a policy and a lockbox just for weapons as we are a rural agency and have alot of citizens who have CCP and also do open carry.

← Older Comments
Vote for me! Click Here

Polarized sunglasses, Flashlights, and Hiking boots.