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Just Call Me The Candy Man

62 comments


#1 Dinosaur has an excellent post on his blog about the differences between drug seeking behavior in Emergency Departments versus physician offices. He writes:


Most of the (blog) “literature” on drug seeking comes from the ER and pre-hospital bloggers. To them, seekers are all stupid, lazy, unwilling to confront their demons/addictions, often belligerent and overall pains in the ass.

I read his blog because he invariably posts a well-reasoned discourse on the things that simply induce a vitriolic rant from the rest of us. He makes me think, and his post on the subject illustrates the lengths to which a conscientious physician will go to identify, and treat, what he believes is a legitimate pain complaint. Knowing when it’s the Real Deal boils down to one word – relationships.

The more you know about that patient, the more likely you are to treat any of their ailments appropriately. Pain is just one example, and Dino Doc pegs it – the patients who are unwilling to do their part to develop that trust between physician and patient, are most likely there just for a fix.

Unfortunately, we don’t have much opportunity to develop patient relationships like that in EMS or Emergency Departments. What relationships we do develop are weighted toward the type of people who won’t make the effort to gain the trust of their primary care physician. When we see people repeatedly, it is almost always for one thing – drugs.

It bothers me a bit, however, that I’d be characterized as he does in his post. I don’t pigeonhole patients that neatly, although I can see how you’d get that impression from some of my posts. The particularly cutting remark came from Cathy in the comments section:


I also agree that after reading some of the ER blogs, I NEVER want to ask for pain control while in their ERs.

Now there is a shaming comment if ever I heard one. Cathy, you should never be ashamed to ask for treatment for a legitimate complaint. If you’re hurting, a competent clinician can usually tell.

If you read this blog, you already know the types of patients who earn my scorn. What you may not know is that, everywhere I have worked, I have been the Candy Man.

When I worked for Huge Soulless Corporate Conglomerate EMS, I routinely administered more narcotics than any other medic, save one. That particular fellow jumped at the chance to give any medication, often on the flimsiest of pretenses, and quite often he’d exaggerate clinical findings in his reports to get the orders he wanted. His nickname in the local ERs was “Overkill.”

I’m aggressive with the use of some medications and reticent with others, but I believe that benzodiazepine sedatives and narcotic analgesics are some of the safest drugs we carry.

Yeah, I said the mind-altering, potentially addictive drugs are the safe ones. In EMS and the Emergency Department, in the doses and intervals we typically use, these drugs are very safe, and not likely to result in addiction. The potentially harmful side effects are short-lived and relatively easy to manage.

Prescription narcotics and sedatives however, well that’s an entirely different kettle of fish. There is a much finer line to tread there.

Oxycontin? There’s a reason they call it Hillbilly Heroin.

Prescription Xanax? A scourge. Hate that stuff.

It doesn’t take an open femur fracture or organs falling out to get pain medication or empathy at Podunk General Hospital, Nail Salon, Tire Repair and Crawfish Hut. We get our drug seekers like everyone else, but if the story is even remotely plausible, they’ll get medicated – even if we think they might be seeking. What they usually won’t get is a prescription to take home.

A sample of a few of the patients I’ve advocated for in the past weeks:

For the eight-year-old with a dislocated shoulder and a major fear of needles:

AD: “Hey Doc, how about intranasal Versed and Fentanyl for the kid before you do the reduction? It’ll kick in faster than the IM morphine, and we’ll save him a needle stick.”

Doc: “Doesn’t the conscious sedation protocol require an IV?”

AD: “Yeah, but it doesn’t say you have to have an IV first. I’ll stick him when he’s nice and relaxed.”

For the sixty-year-old woman with chronic knee pain who insists on using us as her primary care clinic.

Doc: “She ain’t getting squat. She’s in here every month. Give her a 10 mg Toradol tablet and send her home.”

AD: “Just go look at her, Doc. She’s really hurting.”

Doc: “She has a phone. She could have called her own doctor for a refill.”

AD: “So she’s stupid. Doesn’t change the fact that she’s hurting, and besides, stupid people keep us in business.”

Doc (sighing): “Okay, fine. Give her 60 mg of Toradol IM, and an extra-strength Vicodin. But no scrip!”

AD: “You are truly dripping with the milk of human compassion, Doc. If calculus hadn’t kicked my ass, I’d have wanted to be a doc just like you.”

For the 26 year old Iraq war vet, discharged last year and literally trembling from head-to-toe with the DTs:

AD: “Hey Doc, aside from the banana bag and the thiamine, how about some sedation for this guy?”

Doc: “Not until we get his drug screen back.”

AD: “It’s been back for twenty minutes.”

Doc: “Okay, I’ll go see him in a minute.”

AD: “You know I love you Doc, but you’re not the one in there retching his guts out and shaking like a crack baby. The guy quit drinking cold-turkey and came to us for help. Let’s try to make him comfortable.”

Doc (sighing again): “Fine, 2 mg of Ativan IV push. Any other orders, Doctor AD?”

AD (blowing kisses): “Well, now that you mention it, some IV Zofran for his nausea would be just swell.”

For the girl with polycystic ovary disease, a UTI and way too many abdominal problems to mention:

Doc: “Are her abdominal CTs back yet?”

AD: “Nope. Probably take another thirty minutes. She says she’s still in severe pain.”

Doc: “She’s already had 10 mg of IV Morphine.”

AD: “And she’s still hurting, as evidenced by the piteous moans, writhing around and the BP of 160/94, heart rate of 126, and respirations of 28. Something tells me we ain’t making a dent, and that hypotension and respiratory depression are a long way off.”

Doc (rolling his eyes and writing the order): “Okay, 5 mg more of Morphine, and repeat it in ten minutes if she hasn’t gotten relief. And you are really starting to chap my ass.”

AD (winking): “Damn, that sounds painful. Would you like me to ask the doctor to order something to take the edge off?”

  • Anonymous

    I can totally see Cathy’s point AD – I felt the same way. I broke my foot really badly (Lisfranc fracture – not a nice thing) 2 years ago and was in Emerg for 4 hours before I got any pain meds. I didn’t want to ask because I didn’t want to come off as one of the drug seekers I so often read about. Once I turned gastly white and was close to passing out, the doc clued in that I was in pain and hadn’t gotten anything for it. Now I wish you’d have been there ;) Jenn

  • Anonymous

    I can totally see Cathy’s point AD – I felt the same way. I broke my foot really badly (Lisfranc fracture – not a nice thing) 2 years ago and was in Emerg for 4 hours before I got any pain meds. I didn’t want to ask because I didn’t want to come off as one of the drug seekers I so often read about. Once I turned gastly white and was close to passing out, the doc clued in that I was in pain and hadn’t gotten anything for it. Now I wish you’d have been there ;) Jenn

  • LL

    Ooooo, I’m not sure you’d be my friend. You know those niggling side effects? Yeah….<>“This may make you a little nauseous.”<>Me: RAAAAAAAALLLLPH.<>“This may make you a little sleepy.”<>3 days later I wake up.“This may hurt a little.”(that one was for an anti-nausea med that I got the choice on pill or shot form and the shot supposedly worked faster)Me: 1–my arm hurt for over a month2–I ended up puking 10 minutes laterSo yeah, I think I would not be smilin’ at you. hahahaha

  • LL

    3 days later I wake up.”This may hurt a little.”(that one was for an anti-nausea med that I got the choice on pill or shot form and the shot supposedly worked faster)Me: 1–my arm hurt for over a month2–I ended up puking 10 minutes laterSo yeah, I think I would not be smilin’ at you. hahahaha

  • Scott

    I’m confused. What, other than the fact that the crap doesn’t WORK, is so bad about Xanax? I had it prescribed for my IMRT to the face and I don’t think it relaxed me much, nor was it addictive. Zofran. Huh. Every time I popped one of those bad boys in my palm, instead of seeing an oblong white pill, I saw a fifty dollar bill and a ten spot, too! Ha, and I even managed to yakk a few times despite the pills!

  • Scott

    I’m confused. What, other than the fact that the crap doesn’t WORK, is so bad about Xanax? I had it prescribed for my IMRT to the face and I don’t think it relaxed me much, nor was it addictive. Zofran. Huh. Every time I popped one of those bad boys in my palm, instead of seeing an oblong white pill, I saw a fifty dollar bill and a ten spot, too! Ha, and I even managed to yakk a few times despite the pills!

  • Ambulance Driver

    LL: #1: Demerol has a really nasty side-effect profile, and it does tend to make people do the Technicolor Yawn. Morphine, less so, but still. We often cut it with Phenergan to lessen the nausea.#2: Phenergan is probably the one that made your arm hurt. It burns like hell and scleroses the vein if you don’t dilute the hell out of it. Dilute it in at least 10 ml of saline (I prefer 20) and it’s not nearly so bad. And it still takes more than 10 minutes to reach its peak effects, even when given IV.#3: Next time you’re nauseous, ask for Zofran.

  • Ambulance Driver

    LL: #1: Demerol has a really nasty side-effect profile, and it does tend to make people do the Technicolor Yawn. Morphine, less so, but still. We often cut it with Phenergan to lessen the nausea.#2: Phenergan is probably the one that made your arm hurt. It burns like hell and scleroses the vein if you don’t dilute the hell out of it. Dilute it in at least 10 ml of saline (I prefer 20) and it’s not nearly so bad. And it still takes more than 10 minutes to reach its peak effects, even when given IV.#3: Next time you’re nauseous, ask for Zofran.

  • Ambulance Driver

    Scott, Xanax works okay to relieve acute anxiety, but to my mind, talking someone down or a dose of Versed works better. The problem with Xanax is the rebound effect. For people who take it on a regular basis, and then don’t get it for whatever reason, often wind having the worst. anxiety. attack. ever.And Zofran is now available in generic form, my friend. You can odansetron (the generic) for a tiny fraction of the price.

  • Ambulance Driver

    Scott, Xanax works okay to relieve acute anxiety, but to my mind, talking someone down or a dose of Versed works better. The problem with Xanax is the rebound effect. For people who take it on a regular basis, and then don’t get it for whatever reason, often wind having the worst. anxiety. attack. ever.And Zofran is now available in generic form, my friend. You can odansetron (the generic) for a tiny fraction of the price.

  • Nurse K

    According to doc @ my ER (can’t find article to back it up, but didn’t try that hard either):ACEP has said we should never give IM demerol/vistaril due to its tendency to cause dependancy/addiction very quickly.Now that zofran has gone generic, we use that all the time. Sometimes high BPs and sweating/writhing, especially from someone thought to be a seeker, is due to…narcotic withdrawal, not pain. Also remember, it’s not the doctor’s DUTY to prescribe meds for chronic pain. Our ER is developing a protocol whereby you’ll only get non-narcotic prescriptions for chronic pain.

  • Nurse K

    According to doc @ my ER (can’t find article to back it up, but didn’t try that hard either):ACEP has said we should never give IM demerol/vistaril due to its tendency to cause dependancy/addiction very quickly.Now that zofran has gone generic, we use that all the time. Sometimes high BPs and sweating/writhing, especially from someone thought to be a seeker, is due to…narcotic withdrawal, not pain. Also remember, it’s not the doctor’s DUTY to prescribe meds for chronic pain. Our ER is developing a protocol whereby you’ll only get non-narcotic prescriptions for chronic pain.

  • Ambulance Driver

    Nurse K,I’ve never been a big fan of Demerol, period, but if you could find the citation and shoot it to me, I’d appreciate it. Might serve to discourage a few of your Docs from giving it.“Sometimes high BPs and sweating/writhing, especially from someone thought to be a seeker, is due to…narcotic withdrawal, not pain.”True. In which case they’d probably get some benzos. ;) We’re slightly lucky in that a great many of our chronic seekers and addicts are already familiar to us.

  • Ambulance Driver

    Nurse K,I’ve never been a big fan of Demerol, period, but if you could find the citation and shoot it to me, I’d appreciate it. Might serve to discourage a few of your Docs from giving it.”Sometimes high BPs and sweating/writhing, especially from someone thought to be a seeker, is due to…narcotic withdrawal, not pain.”True. In which case they’d probably get some benzos. ;) We’re slightly lucky in that a great many of our chronic seekers and addicts are already familiar to us.

  • HollyB

    So when I have surgery and I ask my doc, who LOVES to give Lortab, for Ultram instead, am I drug seeking? I prefer the Ultram b/c I don’t get sleepy or goofy w/it like I do w/ the Lortab.He didn’t have a problem with the substitution. But how would that explanation go over in an ED?

  • HollyB

    So when I have surgery and I ask my doc, who LOVES to give Lortab, for Ultram instead, am I drug seeking? I prefer the Ultram b/c I don’t get sleepy or goofy w/it like I do w/ the Lortab.He didn’t have a problem with the substitution. But how would that explanation go over in an ED?

  • Ambulance Driver

    “So when I have surgery and I ask my doc, who LOVES to give Lortab, for Ultram instead, am I drug seeking?”Holly, we’d probably fall over backwards in shock. Then you’d get your Ultram scrip, and before we’d let you go, we’d make a mold of your face and shoulders.You know, so we could worship graven images of you. ;)

  • Ambulance Driver

    “So when I have surgery and I ask my doc, who LOVES to give Lortab, for Ultram instead, am I drug seeking?”Holly, we’d probably fall over backwards in shock. Then you’d get your Ultram scrip, and before we’d let you go, we’d make a mold of your face and shoulders.You know, so we could worship graven images of you. ;)

  • BillyBob

    Poor veteran. I feel sorry for the guy. We were fortunate to go to a good inpatient detox with librium. Ativan is wimpy. We can’t have zofran, though.(hepatoxic)

  • BillyBob

    Poor veteran. I feel sorry for the guy. We were fortunate to go to a good inpatient detox with librium. Ativan is wimpy. We can’t have zofran, though.(hepatoxic)

  • LL

    Actually, I’ve gone through them all. The hurling started with T3, then vicodin, percosets, darvocets, phenergan with morphine, all of it (and no, not at once, just over the years). I’m ok for the first couple of doses. The family doc and I think I can’t metabolize meds well (understatement). It’s actually a family trait (or maybe an ethnic one cuz it’s true for both my Korean mom and my Korean stepmom and us kids on both sides but our Mr. Whitey dad is exempt). It would be an interesting study (NOT paid for by the public haha) to see how different ethnicities physically deal with painkillers.My solution is just to alternate Tylenol and Ibuprofen at shorter intervals so there is always an overlap of pain control. It’s not ideal, but much better than when I was throwing up right after the tonsils were removed and there was nothin’ but raw tissue exposed to stomach acids. Ack!!

  • LL

    Actually, I’ve gone through them all. The hurling started with T3, then vicodin, percosets, darvocets, phenergan with morphine, all of it (and no, not at once, just over the years). I’m ok for the first couple of doses. The family doc and I think I can’t metabolize meds well (understatement). It’s actually a family trait (or maybe an ethnic one cuz it’s true for both my Korean mom and my Korean stepmom and us kids on both sides but our Mr. Whitey dad is exempt). It would be an interesting study (NOT paid for by the public haha) to see how different ethnicities physically deal with painkillers.My solution is just to alternate Tylenol and Ibuprofen at shorter intervals so there is always an overlap of pain control. It’s not ideal, but much better than when I was throwing up right after the tonsils were removed and there was nothin’ but raw tissue exposed to stomach acids. Ack!!

  • #1 Dinosaur

    Many thanks for the props, Dude. You’re quite right that I was referring more to generalities expressed in blog posts, rather than accusing you of pigeonholing patients. I agree with you a zillion percent about Xanax, too. The problem is that it causes “rebound anxiety.” Imagine a pain pill that causes worse pain when it wears off. Bad shit. I try never to write it (though I have 1-2 patients who’ve used 1 at bedtime for years, without any escalation or problem. Can’t really cut them off now.)

  • #1 Dinosaur

    Many thanks for the props, Dude. You’re quite right that I was referring more to generalities expressed in blog posts, rather than accusing you of pigeonholing patients. I agree with you a zillion percent about Xanax, too. The problem is that it causes “rebound anxiety.” Imagine a pain pill that causes worse pain when it wears off. Bad shit. I try never to write it (though I have 1-2 patients who’ve used 1 at bedtime for years, without any escalation or problem. Can’t really cut them off now.)

  • BillyBob

    Wait a minute… I just thought of something… Isn’t sedation in DT’s for preventing like grand mal seisures and heart arrhythmia rather than comfort, and kinda the standard of care these days anyway?

  • BillyBob

    Wait a minute… I just thought of something… Isn’t sedation in DT’s for preventing like grand mal seisures and heart arrhythmia rather than comfort, and kinda the standard of care these days anyway?

  • Purple Daisy

    I had an ED NP nearly speechless during my last visit. (July 5, I was #1 in the hit parade of 6 cars on the freeway). VFD had me all wrapped up & ready to go when the ambulance got there. First time in one too. Initial complaint – bilat hip tenderness/pain; 2-3/10; post mvaAfter getting me off the backboard & doing l-spine, pelvis, & bilat hip x-rays, he was ready to release me. He said he was going to write me a scrip for a muscle relaxer and also offered me a scrip for hydrocodone. I told him that I tried to stay away from that one because my mother, who is allergic to codeine like me, has problems even with the synthetics. He then offered me a scrip of tramadol. I told him that if it was all the same to him, I’d just take 2 Aleve when I got home. He stood there looking at me like I’d just sprouted a third arm and slapped him with it for a couple of seconds & then told me that it was more in line with what I needed anyway since it was an NSAID, take 2 twice a day, & sent me on my merry way.Not everybody that gets offered “the good stuff” takes it.

  • Purple Daisy

    I had an ED NP nearly speechless during my last visit. (July 5, I was #1 in the hit parade of 6 cars on the freeway). VFD had me all wrapped up & ready to go when the ambulance got there. First time in one too. Initial complaint – bilat hip tenderness/pain; 2-3/10; post mvaAfter getting me off the backboard & doing l-spine, pelvis, & bilat hip x-rays, he was ready to release me. He said he was going to write me a scrip for a muscle relaxer and also offered me a scrip for hydrocodone. I told him that I tried to stay away from that one because my mother, who is allergic to codeine like me, has problems even with the synthetics. He then offered me a scrip of tramadol. I told him that if it was all the same to him, I’d just take 2 Aleve when I got home. He stood there looking at me like I’d just sprouted a third arm and slapped him with it for a couple of seconds & then told me that it was more in line with what I needed anyway since it was an NSAID, take 2 twice a day, & sent me on my merry way.Not everybody that gets offered “the good stuff” takes it.

  • Ambulance Driver

    “Isn’t sedation in DT’s for preventing like grand mal seisures and heart arrhythmia rather than comfort, and kinda the standard of care these days anyway?”Well, I’d agree that’s the justification for giving it, but not necessarily <>for<> seizure prophylaxis and <>not<> for anxiety.In any case, I didn’t think he was getting it fast enough. They may get better drugs when we transfer them to a detox facility, but I’ll confess I’ve never given it much thought as to which ones.And I can’t remember what this guy’s liver panel was like, but I want to say it was grossly normal.In any case he got his Zofran.I felt bad for the guy. He had a drinking problem while he was still in the army, but when he was discharged it spiraled out of control.He did his best to try to kill himself with a bottle, but then cowboyed up and tried to pull out of it on his own. It was just a bit too much for him.He actually refused all medications initially, choosing instead to tough it out without drugs. Took a bit of explaining what withdrawal could do and that the medications wouldn’t simply be replacing one addiction for another.

  • Ambulance Driver

    for anxiety.In any case, I didn’t think he was getting it fast enough. They may get better drugs when we transfer them to a detox facility, but I’ll confess I’ve never given it much thought as to which ones.And I can’t remember what this guy’s liver panel was like, but I want to say it was grossly normal.In any case he got his Zofran.I felt bad for the guy. He had a drinking problem while he was still in the army, but when he was discharged it spiraled out of control.He did his best to try to kill himself with a bottle, but then cowboyed up and tried to pull out of it on his own. It was just a bit too much for him.He actually refused all medications initially, choosing instead to tough it out without drugs. Took a bit of explaining what withdrawal could do and that the medications wouldn’t simply be replacing one addiction for another.

  • Jay G

    Hmmm. Why do I hear VH’s “Ice Cream Man” in my head here?(Ans.: Probably because it’s better than Sammy Davis Jr. singing “Candy Man”…)Chalk me up as one who turns down pain meds. As a reformed smoker and fatass, I know all too well the dangers of addiction. I took Valium after a bad car wreck about 10 years ago and stopped taking it altogether after the second night.First off, it put me to sleep for 12+ hours.Secondly, after the second dose I could feel myself CRAVING more. Lastly, WRT Aleve and the ___profen family: Ketoprofen gave me the screaming shits for a day and a half. You couldn’t PAY me to take that evil shit again…

  • Jay G

    Hmmm. Why do I hear VH’s “Ice Cream Man” in my head here?(Ans.: Probably because it’s better than Sammy Davis Jr. singing “Candy Man”…)Chalk me up as one who turns down pain meds. As a reformed smoker and fatass, I know all too well the dangers of addiction. I took Valium after a bad car wreck about 10 years ago and stopped taking it altogether after the second night.First off, it put me to sleep for 12+ hours.Secondly, after the second dose I could feel myself CRAVING more. Lastly, WRT Aleve and the ___profen family: Ketoprofen gave me the screaming shits for a day and a half. You couldn’t PAY me to take that evil shit again…

  • William the Coroner

    I see a lot of pain patients. Some docs throw around methadone like it’s water. It’s really quite dangerous, can kill on the first dose and is really bad shit when you combine it with ethanol and benzos. A lot of folks really love their fentanyl patches and oxycodone. I don’t know. Adequate pain control is important. So is not losing your medical license. I think, though, the problem isn’t the drug seeking, it’s the lying, the manipulation, and the scamming that gets up people’s noses.

  • William the Coroner

    I see a lot of pain patients. Some docs throw around methadone like it’s water. It’s really quite dangerous, can kill on the first dose and is really bad shit when you combine it with ethanol and benzos. A lot of folks really love their fentanyl patches and oxycodone. I don’t know. Adequate pain control is important. So is not losing your medical license. I think, though, the problem isn’t the drug seeking, it’s the lying, the manipulation, and the scamming that gets up people’s noses.

  • Queen of Dysfunction

    I’m curious about the prescription Xanax thing. I had it prescribed to me for anxiety and there it sits in my medicine cabinet because I haven’t taken any since I was given the prescription a year ago. (I am, by the way, the Queen of Getting Prescribed Medication That I Never Take)So, what makes it so bad because I was keeping it around “just in case” but I’m thinking maybe I should just toss it.

  • Queen of Dysfunction

    I’m curious about the prescription Xanax thing. I had it prescribed to me for anxiety and there it sits in my medicine cabinet because I haven’t taken any since I was given the prescription a year ago. (I am, by the way, the Queen of Getting Prescribed Medication That I Never Take)So, what makes it so bad because I was keeping it around “just in case” but I’m thinking maybe I should just toss it.

  • Ragamuffin

    As an RN with severe chronic pain I have found this post (and its comments!) interesting. I once spent five days with an obstructed (or obstructing) ureter due to an endometrioma. I knew that persons who bounce from ER to ER are usually drug-seeking. Also I’d had this terrible pain for much of the past four years with negative CTs and no diagnosis and more than one doctor told me he believed I was drug-seeking. After a while I began to believe the pain was imaginary and I WAS drug-seeking. I just couldn’t figure out why this “imaginary” pain felt so real.I went to the ER I’d always gone to, in consequence, and spent two hours in screaming, writhing pain (it’s the same pain as that caused by kidney stones) before they finally gave me a shot of demeral. They sent me home without doing any tests. When I went to my PMD for follow-up that was when he told me he thought I was drug-seeking.Within hours this pain was back and I held on for four more days before I couldn’t take it anymore. I decided to go to a different ER coz I knew I needed to be thoroughly evaluated. I was seen immediately and when I told the MD I didn’t want a shot to just PLEASE give me one vicodin, he said, “I’m afraid vicodin isn’t going to do anything for this severity of pain; I think you have a kidney stone.” Turns out he was wrong but the UA showed large amounts of blood and the IVP showed an obstruction which usually turns out to be a kidney stone. He sent me home with script for vicodin & toradol and told me to drink lots of fluids to flush the “stone” thru.I was admitted to the hospital two days later with excrutiating pain and projectile vomiting. An abdominal CT showed an endometrioma obstructing the left ureter and I had emergency surgery to remove the endometrioma as well as a portion of my bladder & ureter. My doctor had the grace to apologize to me for disbelieving me and said this explained all the pain I’d had over the past four years. In some ways it wasn’t his fault because I’d had a total abdominal hysterectomy and several negative CTs as well as an EXTREMELY expensive workup at Mayo clinic but nothing seemed to explain the pain. To cheer me up he said this (post-hyst endometriosis) happened so rarely I didn’t need to worry about it ever happening again.Six months later I had an endometrioma obstruct my right ureter and had further ureteral/bladder repair. Since then (for the past ten years) I’ve lived with severe chronic pain.One thing I’d like to mention is that whenever I went to the ER or to my PMD the fact that my blood pressure & heart rate were almost always within normal limits was held up as proof that I wasn’t truly in pain. The sad fact is that when you live with high levels of pain on a daily basis your b/p and HR adapts over time and DOESN’T become elevated. I was taught this in nursing school, yet so many persons (docs, nurses, paramedics) who should know this DON’T. Anyway, sorry this is so long. I guess what I’m trying to say is, although I know it’s difficult in the ER or emergency setting, its important to show grace towards others. I know my experience made me a better nurse because I’d “been there”. A lot of the nurses who tx’d me in the ER were almost vindictive because they were so sure I was drug-seeking. I’m sure I confused things, too, since I’d begun to believe it myself after being told this so many times. But shouldn’t we accept at face value what a patient tells us, at least until it’s proved otherwise? As healthcare workers we’re here to help people, not punish them for being addicts.

  • Ragamuffin

    As an RN with severe chronic pain I have found this post (and its comments!) interesting. I once spent five days with an obstructed (or obstructing) ureter due to an endometrioma. I knew that persons who bounce from ER to ER are usually drug-seeking. Also I’d had this terrible pain for much of the past four years with negative CTs and no diagnosis and more than one doctor told me he believed I was drug-seeking. After a while I began to believe the pain was imaginary and I WAS drug-seeking. I just couldn’t figure out why this “imaginary” pain felt so real.I went to the ER I’d always gone to, in consequence, and spent two hours in screaming, writhing pain (it’s the same pain as that caused by kidney stones) before they finally gave me a shot of demeral. They sent me home without doing any tests. When I went to my PMD for follow-up that was when he told me he thought I was drug-seeking.Within hours this pain was back and I held on for four more days before I couldn’t take it anymore. I decided to go to a different ER coz I knew I needed to be thoroughly evaluated. I was seen immediately and when I told the MD I didn’t want a shot to just PLEASE give me one vicodin, he said, “I’m afraid vicodin isn’t going to do anything for this severity of pain; I think you have a kidney stone.” Turns out he was wrong but the UA showed large amounts of blood and the IVP showed an obstruction which usually turns out to be a kidney stone. He sent me home with script for vicodin & toradol and told me to drink lots of fluids to flush the “stone” thru.I was admitted to the hospital two days later with excrutiating pain and projectile vomiting. An abdominal CT showed an endometrioma obstructing the left ureter and I had emergency surgery to remove the endometrioma as well as a portion of my bladder & ureter. My doctor had the grace to apologize to me for disbelieving me and said this explained all the pain I’d had over the past four years. In some ways it wasn’t his fault because I’d had a total abdominal hysterectomy and several negative CTs as well as an EXTREMELY expensive workup at Mayo clinic but nothing seemed to explain the pain. To cheer me up he said this (post-hyst endometriosis) happened so rarely I didn’t need to worry about it ever happening again.Six months later I had an endometrioma obstruct my right ureter and had further ureteral/bladder repair. Since then (for the past ten years) I’ve lived with severe chronic pain.One thing I’d like to mention is that whenever I went to the ER or to my PMD the fact that my blood pressure & heart rate were almost always within normal limits was held up as proof that I wasn’t truly in pain. The sad fact is that when you live with high levels of pain on a daily basis your b/p and HR adapts over time and DOESN’T become elevated. I was taught this in nursing school, yet so many persons (docs, nurses, paramedics) who should know this DON’T. Anyway, sorry this is so long. I guess what I’m trying to say is, although I know it’s difficult in the ER or emergency setting, its important to show grace towards others. I know my experience made me a better nurse because I’d “been there”. A lot of the nurses who tx’d me in the ER were almost vindictive because they were so sure I was drug-seeking. I’m sure I confused things, too, since I’d begun to believe it myself after being told this so many times. But shouldn’t we accept at face value what a patient tells us, at least until it’s proved otherwise? As healthcare workers we’re here to help people, not punish them for being addicts.

  • Loving Annie

    Except for tossing my cookies after surgery once, I haven’t had any other experience with meds in an E.R. — mainly because I haven’t had to be in one as a patient !As a volunteer (meaning looky-loo who gets appreciated for changing beds and bringing warm blankets) I see a lot that turns my stomach that the nurses roll their eyes about when the system is abused by an obvious and repeat drug-seeker.I’ve never seen the nurses be anything but sympathetic and efficient though when it is a legitimate, genuine case of need.And the difference becomes apparent fairly quickly.It sounds like you are doing the right thing, too.

  • Loving Annie

    Except for tossing my cookies after surgery once, I haven’t had any other experience with meds in an E.R. — mainly because I haven’t had to be in one as a patient !As a volunteer (meaning looky-loo who gets appreciated for changing beds and bringing warm blankets) I see a lot that turns my stomach that the nurses roll their eyes about when the system is abused by an obvious and repeat drug-seeker.I’ve never seen the nurses be anything but sympathetic and efficient though when it is a legitimate, genuine case of need.And the difference becomes apparent fairly quickly.It sounds like you are doing the right thing, too.

  • Ambulance Driver

    “The sad fact is that whenyou live with high levels of pain on a daily basis your b/p and HRadapts over time and DOESN’T become elevated. I was taught this innursing school, yet so many persons (docs, nurses, paramedics) whoshould know this DON’T.”Good point, Ragamuffin. I suffer from chronic pain myself. It becomes part of the landscape after a while. This is where taking a thorough history is so important.

  • Ambulance Driver

    “The sad fact is that whenyou live with high levels of pain on a daily basis your b/p and HRadapts over time and DOESN’T become elevated. I was taught this innursing school, yet so many persons (docs, nurses, paramedics) whoshould know this DON’T.”Good point, Ragamuffin. I suffer from chronic pain myself. It becomes part of the landscape after a while. This is where taking a thorough history is so important.

  • Ambulance Driver

    “So, what makes it so bad because I was keeping it around “just in case” but I’m thinking maybe I should just toss it.”People who take it regularly and then don’t get it for one reason or another wind up having worse anxiety attacks than they’ve ever had before being prescribed the drug. It’s called the rebound effect, and Dinosaur Doc is right – it is bad shit.

  • Ambulance Driver

    “So, what makes it so bad because I was keeping it around “just in case” but I’m thinking maybe I should just toss it.”People who take it regularly and then don’t get it for one reason or another wind up having worse anxiety attacks than they’ve ever had before being prescribed the drug. It’s called the rebound effect, and Dinosaur Doc is right – it is bad shit.

  • A Soldier’s Girl

    When I broke my foot in April, I limped into the ER, literally sobbing, and got zilch. Three hours later, when I was still sitting there and crying, I asked for Tylenol. I was told I couldn’t have anything for pain, for some baloney reason that the doc might want to prescribe something else and he wouldn’t be able to if I’d already gotten meds. I was PISSED. Then again, this is the same ER that let me scream (well, moaning, too) for three hours before they gave me anything. Sorry, hit a button.

  • A Soldier’s Girl

    When I broke my foot in April, I limped into the ER, literally sobbing, and got zilch. Three hours later, when I was still sitting there and crying, I asked for Tylenol. I was told I couldn’t have anything for pain, for some baloney reason that the doc might want to prescribe something else and he wouldn’t be able to if I’d already gotten meds. I was PISSED. Then again, this is the same ER that let me scream (well, moaning, too) for three hours before they gave me anything. Sorry, hit a button.

  • A Soldier’s Girl

    The previous visit was for gall stones. Sorry I didn’t mention that.

  • A Soldier’s Girl

    The previous visit was for gall stones. Sorry I didn’t mention that.

  • knitalot3

    William the Coroner said: “I see a lot of pain patients.” Wouldn’t that really be *former pain patients*? Or is William not really a Coroner. Sorry AD if this isn’t the place for this.Demerol, eh. I had to google AD’s term for the side effect. A lovely drug to give someone in labor who has not asked for pain meds, but whom the nurse thinks is breathing too fast because she has never had any lamaze training. But I’m not bitter… much. Oh, and the wacky dreams are great too. NOT!I prefer the tylenol/ibuprophen thing myself. Even 12 hrs after a c-section.Anyone have ideas on why some people’s pain tolerance is amazing and other people can’t handle a hangnail?

  • knitalot3

    William the Coroner said: “I see a lot of pain patients.” Wouldn’t that really be *former pain patients*? Or is William not really a Coroner. Sorry AD if this isn’t the place for this.Demerol, eh. I had to google AD’s term for the side effect. A lovely drug to give someone in labor who has not asked for pain meds, but whom the nurse thinks is breathing too fast because she has never had any lamaze training. But I’m not bitter… much. Oh, and the wacky dreams are great too. NOT!I prefer the tylenol/ibuprophen thing myself. Even 12 hrs after a c-section.Anyone have ideas on why some people’s pain tolerance is amazing and other people can’t handle a hangnail?


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